Su Jing's rhetorical question shocked Zhu Yuanzhang and the others again.
Isn’t it true that those who are average in reading and writing articles are not talents?
If this is the case, can Zhu Yuanzhang counterattack from a peasant to become the emperor of tomorrow?
Su Jing looked at the three people in front of her calmly and said nothing.
Some things are better to be digested by oneself.
After a while, Zhu Biao said: "Master Su's words are indeed a new angle, but if this is not the case, if this is not done, how will Ming Dynasty screen out the talents it needs?"
Zhu Yuanzhang immediately echoed: "Yes, Su Jing, even if the imperial examination has the problems you mentioned, it is to select talents who can manage the Ming Dynasty. Naturally, the best must be selected. They must be good at reading and writing, and at the same time manage the ability." It can’t be worse.”
Zhu Yuanzhang was straightforward. He was the emperor and did not need to answer multiple-choice questions. It was not that he had to have his cake and eat it too.
Song Lian, on the other hand, did not directly refute, but carefully thought about Su Jing's question.
Su Jing looked at the father and son Zhu Yuanzhang and Zhu Biao, and still asked: "But the talents that Ming Dynasty needs are only the three hundred people selected every three years?"
"In other words, Mingnuo's vast territory only requires these three hundred people."
Generally speaking, the frequency of the imperial examination is once every three years, and the number of Jinshi selected in three years is generally 300.
The area of Daming is not small, and there are many demands for positions.
From Su Jing's point of view, this number of people is simply not enough.
Of course, in Zhu Yuanzhang's opinion, it was definitely not enough.
Zhu Yuanzhang was speechless.
Zhu Biao also realized that there were really few talents selected by the imperial examination. He originally thought of increasing the frequency of the imperial examination, but he immediately realized that there was a problem with this matter.
Holding an imperial examination in the Ming Dynasty consumed a lot of manpower and material resources.
For those scholars in remote areas, they come to participate in a big competition, which is called going to Beijing to take the exam.
In order to rush for the exam, the short distance is dozens or hundreds of miles, and the long distance is thousands of miles.
After traveling such a long distance, where can I find time to read and review?
The frequency of once every three years is already the most frequent time that Daming can accept under comprehensive considerations.
This matter is really not that easy to change.
"Uncle Ren Yuan, if you don't understand the words of the sages and have only skills but no way, I'm afraid it's not advisable."
Song Lian said.
Before coming, Zhu Yuanzhang had briefly talked about what Su Jing's vocational education was. Both Zhu Biao and Song Lian had a basic understanding.
This is Song Lian's rebuttal based on the content of vocational education.
Hearing this, Su Jing immediately smiled and said: "Uncle, it seems that you and Song Chengzhi didn't explain it in detail enough!"
"Su Jing, what do you mean?"
Zhu Yuanzhang looked at Su Jing and said.
Su Jing said lightly: "Song Chengzhi could ask this question, but he just failed to understand what vocational education is."
"Please give me some advice from Uncle Ren Yuan."
Song Lian immediately asked Su Jing, his attitude was quite sincere.
He was not a member of the Huaixi Party, and he did not have much conflict of interest with Su Jing. He listened to Liu Bowen's warnings, and he also saw Zhu Yuanzhang's attitude.
The emperor treated Su Jing with such courtesy, and his attitude was appropriate.
Su Jing said: "Don't take it seriously. What I call vocational education, simply understood, is indeed training and education for all walks of life other than studying, so that they can play their role in all walks of life."
"But this does not mean that we should stop reading books by sages. I always believe that cultural education and practical production and life skills complement each other."
"Any industry must have its own knowledge. Reading can make you wise, but naturally you cannot relax."
“So, reading wisely is also an important part of this vocational education, but it focuses more on learning practical skills.”
After this explanation, Song Lian's expression obviously changed a lot.
He did not expect that Su Jing's so-called vocational education was actually like this, which somewhat subverted his imagination.
Zhu Yuanzhang and Zhu Biao, on the other hand, couldn't stop nodding.
"This is quite interesting. It's quite interesting."
Zhu Yuanzhang raised the corner of his mouth. It sounds like this talent from vocational education is not just someone who can do things without any cultural knowledge.
"Uncle Ren Yuan, I'm afraid this is impossible."
Song Lian spoke with an extremely serious expression, and looked at Su Jing with a strange look in his eyes.
"Why not?"
Su Jing smiled and asked: "Could Song Chengzhi want to say that scholars are the best in the world, how can they be allowed to study first and then learn the art of utensils?"
Su Jing has long known the biggest difficulty in promoting vocational education.
This was not only a problem of the Ming Dynasty, but also a big problem when Su Jing was promoting vocational education in his previous life.
In my previous life, that was called professional discrimination.
Blue-collar workers are not as good as white-collar workers, and those who work are not as good as those who sit in offices.
In today's Ming Dynasty, scholars have the highest status and are scholars, while those educated through vocational education are mostly workers.
Scholars, farmers, industry and commerce, this is two levels different, how can it be so easy to turn around.
This matter is also one of the reasons why Su Jing believes that it is difficult to promote vocational education in Ming Dynasty.
But because the emperor is Zhu Yuanzhang, it is not impossible.
"Scholars study to cultivate themselves, govern the country, and bring peace to the world. I really don't understand what vocational education requires scholars to study."
Song Lian's attitude has changed somewhat. He is a great scholar in the world and has lofty ideals and pursuits in his heart.
He really couldn't accept Su Jing's so-called vocational education.
The high status of scholars has been a thing since ancient times. Song Lian could even imagine how many scholars would oppose once this vocational education was implemented.
Su Jing's idea is too subversive.
"Song Chengzhi, do scholars really cultivate their moral integrity and rule the country to bring peace to the world?"
Su Jing smiled and shook his head. He could understand Song Lian's thoughts, but he did not accept them.
"Song Lian, scholars study for the sake of promotion and wealth. What they say about cultivating one's moral character, governing the country, and bringing peace to the world is mostly just a whitewash. I have long seen through it."
Zhu Yuanzhang directly helped Su Jing speak.
He doesn't have so many bells and whistles. Although Zhu Yuanzhang has read a lot of books now, his direct character is still there.
What Song Lian said was very noble, but in Zhu Yuanzhang's heart, he didn't really agree with it.
Because Zhu Yuanzhang had really seen the late Yuan Dynasty's rule, and there were many scholars serving as officials at that time, he knew exactly why.
Zhu Yuanzhang is not the kind of emperor who has lived in the palace since childhood and grew up in an information cocoon compiled by civil and military officials all day long.
He is well aware of the sufferings of the people, and he also clearly understands how harmful it will be for officials to exploit the people.
Therefore, Zhu Yuanzhang mostly acted like a bull or a horse in driving the officials.
"Your Majesty... Master, you can't say that. Reading can clarify the meaning. Cultivating oneself and governing the country and bringing peace to the world are also what scholars should pursue. As for getting promoted and making a fortune, I don't think there are that many scholars who study for this reason."
Song Lian considered his words and said to Zhu Yuanzhang.
At this moment, he was not speaking as a minister of Zhu Yuanzhang, but as a representative of scholars in the world.
Zhu Yuanzhang looked at Song Lian and wanted to reprimand him.
"Uncle, don't worry."
Su Jing called out to Zhu Yuanzhang, and then said: "What Song Chengzhi said is not unreasonable."
Song Lian looked at Su Jing, somewhat confused as to what Su Jing meant.
"Su Jing, what are you going to say?"
Zhu Yuanzhang was really convinced by Su Jing. He talked for a long time and said a lot but didn't seem to mention how to reform the imperial examination. He didn't mention it at all.
Su Jing smiled and continued: "What I want to say is that getting promoted and getting rich and cultivating one's morality and governing the country are not contradictory things. Only by getting promoted and getting rich can one better cultivate one's morality and govern the country. And if one does a good job of cultivating one's morality and governing the country, one can naturally get promoted and get rich." , this is a positive cycle and cannot be turned into a contradiction."
"Just like in our Ming Dynasty, an honest official is a good official. Is this standard really correct? Why do good officials have to live a life of poverty?"
"There are some things that we deliberately set against each other, which is wrong."
The relationship between promotion and wealth and self-cultivation and governing the country, when Su Jing discusses it, seems to have really become another matter.
"Why should a good official live a life of poverty?"
Zhu Biao murmured and repeated Su Jing's words, but what he thought of was Ma Zhiyuan's case.
In the subsequent investigation, he carefully investigated Ma Zhiyuan's interpersonal relationships, past experiences and reputation among local people.
Zhu Biao can say with certainty that Ma Zhiyuan is a good official, at least he once was.
But it happened that such a good official lived an extremely poor life, and even because of his son's illness, he was taken advantage of by people with malicious intentions, and he embarked on a road of no return.
"A good official should not live a life of poverty. Master Su is so right!"
Zhu Biao suddenly spoke, and his voice was a little loud, which immediately attracted the attention of the other three people.
Su Jing looked at Zhu Biao, with a solemn and complicated expression, and she could tell what she was thinking of.
Ma Zhiyuan!
Su Jing also reacted immediately and said immediately: "Niu Yi, don't think too much. It takes time to change some things. Let's talk about vocational education first today."
If this gets sidetracked, I don’t know how long the conversation will last.
"The student made a mistake. I'm sorry, Master Su."
Zhu Biao apologized to Su Jing.
Su Jing said: "Don't worry, it's all a trivial matter, not least uncle and Song Chengzhi, what do you think of my statement?"
Zhu Yuanzhang also thought of Ma Zhiyuan's incident, nodded slightly and said: "It makes some sense."
At this time, Song Lian was still thinking about it.
After hesitating for a moment, he replied: "What Uncle Ren Yuan said is right. Cultivating one's moral character and governing the country are not mutually exclusive with promotion and wealth."
This is actually somewhat contrary to one's wishes.
Because in Song Lian's opinion, the ideal of scholars to cultivate themselves and govern the country should be pure. How could they have such utilitarian ideas as to get promoted and make a fortune?
But if he said this, he would probably be reprimanded by Zhu Yuanzhang again.
Because in reality, this is not what Song Lian thought. There are really very few scholars who can always maintain the ideal of pure self-cultivation and governance!
Echoing Su Jing, at least it shows that scholars still have ideals and pursuits.
Su Jing smiled after hearing Song Lian's words. This was a little trap of his, and Song Lian didn't seem to notice it.
"Song Chengzhi, since there is no conflict between self-cultivation and governing the country and promotion and wealth, then why can't scholars go to work? If scholars only know how to read, it will be of no benefit to the country, right?"
Su Jing said lightly.
Since there is no conflict between self-cultivation and governing the country and promotion and wealth, there should be no conflict between studying and working.
Su Jing did not talk about the idea of professional equality. This was an idea that was difficult to be recognized in the previous life, let alone the current Ming Dynasty.
Human rights are not equal, so how can careers be?
"Uncle Ren Yuan, you are sophistry!"
Song Lian was speechless for a moment, and then he retorted: "If scholars go to work, wouldn't the world be in chaos! This is not beneficial to the country, right?"
"A scholar is a scholar, and a craftsman is a craftsman. How can they be confused?"
Song Lian's long-term ideological education will not be shaken by Su Jing's words.
Su Jing was not in a hurry to refute. He knew that Song Lian's thoughts were actually not that important in promoting this matter. What was important was Zhu Yuanzhang's thoughts.
"Uncle, what do you think?"
Su Jing looked at Zhu Yuanzhang and asked.
How the Ming emperor viewed it was the key to the matter.
Zhu Yuanzhang thought for a moment and then said: "Under the Ming Dynasty, people perform their duties, and there should really not be such changes."
Lao Zhu's thinking: Whatever everyone does, it is best to implement it according to the established policy. The children of soldiers are still soldiers, the children of farmers are still farmers, the children of craftsmen are still craftsmen... The children of the emperor are still emperors.
Only in this way can the Ming Dynasty last forever.
Song Lian breathed a sigh of relief. Fortunately, Zhu Yuanzhang had the same idea as him.
Su Jing shook her head and said: "Uncle, change itself cannot be prohibited. As the saying goes, it is better to block than to open up. Isn't the imperial examination also the result of change?"
"On the surface, the imperial examination selects talents for the country and enables the country to achieve better development."
"Looking deeper, the imperial examination can give ordinary people a chance to rise and cross the class. Although this opportunity is very small, it can finally give the solidified class some possibility of circulation, which can appease the psychology of the lower class and let people They did not raise their status through rebellion but through civil service examinations.”
"I think everyone understands the principle that when people go to higher places, water flows to lower places."
As he said these words, Song Lian was stunned.
Because Su Jing's courage really scared him.
Talking about rebellion in front of Zhu Yuanzhang is a bit boring, and he wants to die.
Unfortunately, Zhu Yuanzhang's reaction did not change as Song Lian imagined. Instead, he looked calm and thinking.
What Song Lian didn't know was that Su Jing had discussed many topics with Zhu Yuanzhang that were more exciting than the rebellion.
A mere rebellion was not enough to cause Zhu Yuanzhang to have too many emotional fluctuations.
"The circulation of classes, the imperial examination is to comfort the lower class."
Zhu Yuanzhang frowned and repeated Su Jing's words. The more he said it, the more reasonable it became.
Solidification of the hierarchy is the expectation of the upper class, but the lower class must also have the idea of changing the class. If there is no normal channel at all, then the lower class will directly use force to open it.
Just like Zhu Yuanzhang rebelled against him.
(End of chapter)
