Ye Feng continued: "Now that we are talking about arguing with Zhuangzi, we can't help but think of that sentence: 'A good person does not argue, and a person who debates is not good'.
"People usually can only see the side of objective facts they want to see, and they feel that they are right and others are wrong. In fact, it is just a different perspective and stance, and it has nothing to do with right or wrong. If a person only In order to argue, you will give a huge definition to the side you see, which is to overgeneralize, that is, to be one-sided, absolute, and expanded. Then you will inevitably attract a group of people who argue with it.
"Everything in this world is comprehensive, black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, and opposites are unified into one. This is the embodiment of the principle of "the opposite is the movement of Tao". Even if it is the same word, different people will see it The first impression of the words will definitely be different in the mind, and the associations will naturally be different. This has also led to disputes between various schools on classic books.
"Actually, it's not that we can't expand it to make it one family, but when we expand it, we must remember not to be absolute or one-sided, but to be more inclusive, so that we won't go too far wrong."
Mr. Yangming said: "This time it is my turn to ask questions. Since you mentioned the debate between Zhuangzi, there is an allusion that I have to mention. That is the Haoliang debate between Zhuangzi and his good friend Huizi. Brother Ye, you Can you tell me your opinion?"
Ye Feng said: "This story comes from "Zhuangzi. Autumn Waters".
"The original text is: Zhuangzi and Huizi were swimming on Haoliang. Zhuangzi said: "The fish swims calmly, which is the joy of the fish. Huizi said: "You are not a fish, how can you know the joy of fish?" Zhuangzi said: "You are not me, how do you know that I don't know the joy of fish?" Huizi said: "I am not a son, so I don't know how to be a son; I am not a fish, so I don't know how to be a fish!" Zhuangzi said: "Please follow its origin." The Master said, "You know how happy fish are?" He asked me since he already knew what I knew. I know it in Haoshang. "
"The translation roughly means: Zhuangzi and Huizi were playing on the bridge of Haoshui River together. Zhuangzi said: "The white fish swims so leisurely and freely, this is the happiness of the fish. "Huizi said: "You are not a fish, how do you know the happiness of fish?" Zhuangzi said: "You are not me, how do you know that I don't know the happiness of fish?" Huizi said: "I am not you, of course I don't know you; you don't know either. If you are not a fish, it is absolutely certain that you do not know the happiness of fish. Zhuangzi said: "Let us return to the beginning." What you said about "how do you know the happiness of fish" is that you asked me because you already know that I know the happiness of fish, and I knew the happiness of fish on the bridge of Haoshui River.
"In my opinion, this is just two eloquent and eloquent boring people bickering. If these two lived in my time, both of them would definitely be the kings of keyboard warriors."
Mr. Yangming asked curiously: "Keyboard warrior?"
Ye Feng said: "He is a person with a particularly strong mouth."
Mr. Yangming said: "Indeed."
Ye Feng said: "Although there is suspicion of sophistry, we can still see something from their argument. For example, Zhuangzi's meaning is completely different from Huizi's understanding.
"Zhuangzi believes that whether a fish is happy or not has nothing to do with whether the fish is actually happy or not. I think that when a fish is happy, it is happy, which is what Brother Wang said, 'There is nothing outside the heart and no reason outside the heart.' It's extreme. Because what Zhuangzi wants to express is the idea that subjective will and objective facts do not need to and are not necessarily connected.
"So Zhuangzi doesn't know whether the fish is happy or not, and he doesn't need to know whether the fish is happy or not. He can think the fish is happy as long as he wants. Huizi's dialectical logic is that subjective cognition must be unified with objective logic, and an individual's Cognition is only known by the individual himself, and other beings cannot get into the head of this individual to understand his thoughts. Therefore, only the fish himself can know whether the fish is happy or not, and Zhuangzi cannot know. But Zhuangzi never said that he knew the fish Happy, so this argument is not valid from the beginning. This reflects Zhuangzi’s point of view of "no victory in argument".
"And the debate is invincible", translated into vernacular, means "there is no winner on both sides of the debate" and "the debate will have no result", which is found in his work "Zhuangzi·Equality of Things". This argument is related to "non-defamation", both of which are In view of the debate among various schools of thought, Zhuangzi maintained that truth is intangible and cannot be expressed in words, so debate will be fruitless.
"What conclusion can we draw based on Keiko's logic?
"It is impossible for Zhuangzi to know whether the fish is happy or not, but it is impossible for Huizi to know whether Zhuangzi knows or not to know whether the fish is happy or not. So a paradox is reached, that is, Zhuangzi does not know whether the fish is happy or not, but Huizi cannot know this fact either. . But Huizi really knew that Zhuangzi didn’t know, so he questioned Zhuangzi. So in the end, Zhuangzi’s conclusion was, you know that I know, so I also know that fish are happy.
"So, this is just a boring sophistry, and it's a pity that both of them can understand it. However, Zhuangzi's conclusion that "subjective cognition and objective facts do not need and have no necessary connection" is indeed not true. I dare to compliment you. I really want to know, when Zhuangzi had no food to eat, did he have the subjective will to think that he was not hungry?"
Mr. Yangming smiled and said: "Why do I feel that Zhuangzi and Huizi are a bit like you and me at this moment? I am Zhuangzi and you are Huizi."
Ye Feng also smiled and said: "It is indeed similar, but there are still many differences. Zhuangzi and Huizi are true sworn friends who talk about everything, and they are also mutual friends. When Huizi was still alive, he often went to Zhuangzi to argue. Huizi Zhuangzi said that his words were inappropriate and his words were useless. However, Zhuangzi said that Huizi was clumsy in using his words in a big way and had right and wrong without any intention. One of the most famous sentences is that the shape of the son chosen by heaven is like that, and the son is strong and white.
"There is a story in "Zhuangzi Qiu Shui": Huizi was the prime minister of Liang State, and Zhuangzi went to visit him. Someone told Huizi: "Zhuangzi came to Liang State to replace you as prime minister. So Huizi was afraid of losing his position, so he hunted him in the capital for several days and nights. Zhuangzi went to see him and said: "There is a bird in the south. Its name is the 铓鶵. Do you know it? The 铓鴵 takes off from the South China Sea and flies to the North Sea. Go, it's not that the plane trees don't live there, the bamboo fruits don't eat, and the sweet spring water doesn't drink. At this time, the kite eagle picked up the rancid mouse, and the kite flew in front of it. The kite looked up and made an angry sound of "drinking". You falcon, do you think your Liang Guoxiang, a rotten rat, would be indifferent to me, a falcon?
"I have to say, it's really damaging. Only good friends dare to say that."
