Chapter 167 A disagreement
He Xi knew Liu Sanwu.
He is the same person as Song Ne. He Xi also knew that it would be difficult for him to convince Liu Sanwu, so using Zhu Yuanzhang to suppress Liu Sanwu was the easiest way. It is also the most effective way. But He Xi hadn't thought about it.
Instead, he thought of Su Boheng and Song Ne.
From an enemy perspective, he is naturally an enemy, but his personal integrity and persistence in his ideals make him a good person.
Sometimes I think it would be great if such people could help me. No need to worry about many things. At this time, He Xi discovered that he actually missed one thing. The reason for walking so hard is ideological enlightenment.
It's just something He Xi wants to do but doesn't dare to do?
Being able to persuade Zhu Yuanzhang to clean Mencius' tablets and enshrine them again is already a rare achievement. Going one step further, He Xi didn't know whether he had entered Zhu Yuanzhang's restricted area.
However, he still wanted to have in-depth communication with people like Liu Sanwu. It’s nice to hear Liu Sanwu’s thoughts. At this moment, He Xi was actually not very confident. Whether it is developing technology or integrating theory, it is a single task for He Xi. It's difficult, but not great. But things are different now. This will be an unprecedented social reform involving tens of thousands of people. How could He Xi pat her chest and say she could do it?
He craves opinions from all directions, even biased ones from his enemies. As long as there is a little bit of novelty, it is useful in He Xi's opinion. Of course, this is the last thing He Xi has been trying to do to win back Liu Sanwu. If he can pull Liu Sanwu over, even if he doesn't directly join the team, just like Su Boxheng, or even acquiesce and not stand in the way, this will be a major victory for He Xi.
If not, He Xi would have to be eliminated as Lanzhi.
Liu Sanwu said: "The Qi family governs the country and the world, and the Qi family is among them. The Qi family inherits the remaining threads of self-cultivation and is the forerunner of governing the world. The family, the country, and the world cannot be confused. Over the years, the people have become accustomed to the current life. You just have a piece of paper. Document, this is going to bring trouble to the world."
He Xi said: "Does the boss know why this happened?"
Liu Sanwu was stunned. How could he not know? This matter had been going on for more than half a year. He couldn't even think about it. Liu Sanwu said: "It's just about opening the sea."
He Xi said: "What does Mr. He think Jie Jin and Ding Xian are fighting about?"
Liu Sanwu did not answer directly, but asked: "What do you think they are fighting for?"
Xie Jin and Ding Xian have been arguing constantly for more than half a year, and they have talked too much. They have been tainted by almost every theory. The matter of opening up the sea is also a big topic, and the relationship between it is also very complicated, such as commerce and agriculture, maritime transportation and land transportation, disputes between justice and interests, etc.
He Xi said: "I think the fundamental issue between the two of them is how the people of the world should live and whether they have the right to have enough to eat and earn warmth."
Liu Sanwu said: "Why do you say this?"
He couldn't understand what He Xi said at all.
He Xi said: "The people will not run away from their hometown for no reason. If the son is on Mount Tai, isn't it a harsh government? Now, the people would rather go to the sea and risk life and death than stay in their hometown. Isn't this a harsh government? Stronger than a dragon?"
"And in all fairness, sir, are the taxes of the imperial court high? Then why do they do this?"
Liu Sanwu spoke up.
He really hadn't thought about it.
If you really want to calculate it, the taxes in Jiangnan are high. But that is official land, and the real taxes on private land are not high. Even now, in the entire Ming Dynasty, except for some places where there are wars, other provinces have a sense of recuperation.
If the taxes calculated by the imperial court were to be followed, the people of Suzhou were living well even under heavy taxes.
Zhu Yuanzhang did not have the habit of fishing for the best.
So why did the people flee, and who deprived them of the benefits that the court gave away.
Liu Sanwu said: "Master He's words are wrong. There are good and bad seedlings. There are good and bad people. In the countryside, there are some evildoers and idle people who love profit but despise justice. It has nothing to do with it."
He Xi said: "I heard that Zhou Chu eliminated the three evils. The villagers thought that Zhou Chu was dead. But these evil and idle people are gone. Why are the local people unhappy? What's the problem here?"
Liu Sanwu lowered his head and thought carefully.
Liu Sanwu has never been a local people's official, but he is not a fool, he is dozens of years old. He wasn't living in a vacuum, he thought, and felt that what He Xi said made sense. The common people are gentle and cruel.
Especially when it comes to people who don't have any interests, just some hooligans, don't talk about leaving. Even if he died on the local street, the case might be closed on the spot because he felt unlucky. Not delving into it.
Because it's too troublesome.
But Liu Sanwu also has some inside information. There are so many people supporting Ding Xian this time. Ding Xian was soft-handed in taking money.
Their reaction was so great that these people who left were definitely not hooligans.
But good people, a lot of good people.
The question is, can you escape your hometown while living a good life?
There is only one reason for people to leave their hometown and become humble. What He Xi said makes sense.
Returning to He Xi's thinking, Liu Sanwu must admit that the reason for such a large-scale outflow of people was because the scholar-bureaucrat class was too exploitative, which was not in line with Liu Sanwu's upbringing and knowledge since he was a child.
But beyond that, what other explanation is there?
At this point, Liu Sanwu was a little confused.
However, Liu Sanwu said calmly: "The two are not the same. It is a major event for the court. It is not a child's play. Gold and silver should not be used for hunger and thirst. Only food is the national treasure. The gentry is the pillar of the country. You are doing this to divide the clan and destroy it." Gentleman. Moreover, do you think doing this is really good for the people? You are His Majesty’s son-in-law, and you have probably never seen ordinary people living like this. Natural and man-made disasters can come to your door at any time. A small man in a small household, A cold wind may make it impossible for this family to survive. Once the husband dies, the wife and children at home will not be able to survive. It is not that the clan enslaves the people, but that the people cannot live without the clan. In the countryside, everyone who sticks together Only by doing this can one live a better life, but clan is the most common among them."
"If there is no clan, then there is nothing else? White Lotus Sect, Manichaeism, where did these come from? How did they develop?"
He Xi was silent for a moment and had to admit that Liu Sanwu's objection was reasonable.
The clans oppressed the small people and enslaved the common people, and the big clans united to bully the single families. This is naturally wrong. But the problem is, if you ask those who live alone, what they want most is not to overthrow the clan, but to be born into a big clan.
It’s nice to lean against a big tree to enjoy the shade.
The fragility of the small-scale peasant economy dictates that only by uniting the peasants can they live a better life. Even in later generations, when farmers were just beginning to reform, they organized farmers into cooperatives.
The cooperative itself is a model for farmers to unite. Perhaps it is much more advanced than the clan. But essentially, the difference is not big.
Many things always have pros and cons.
If the problem of productivity is not solved, there will be sects without clans. The clan gentry and country sages are naturally not the best choices. Liu Sanwu also knows some things. But after much deliberation, Liu Sanwu still couldn't find a better choice.
Instead of trying haphazardly, stick with the status quo and fine-tune it.
In short, this discussion with Liu Sanwu made He Xi see from another side the difficulty of implementing new laws in the Ming Dynasty. However, Zhu Yuanzhang was determined. He Xi had to start early.
He Xi said: "These always have to be solved. Mr. Liu, I don't believe it. You don't know what the benefits will be if the court can succeed?"
"Why does the king need to talk about benefits?" Liu Sanwu sneered and said: "Everything is beneficial, and words are beneficial. Is this the attitude that a court should have?"
He Xi suddenly didn't know what to say.
This is completely a difference in fundamental concepts and is almost irreconcilable.
In He Xi's mind, the government and court are completely industrialized systems, and some changes may need to be made according to local conditions, but overall there will be no changes. Even administration is cost-conscious. But what does the imperial court look like in the eyes of Confucians?
