After listening to what Su Yonglin said, the Ministry of Finance generally did not have any strong objections.
Because this does make sense.
Su Yonglin also saw some of the Ministry of Finance's plans and found them laughable.
“Not to mention private restaurants and hotels, you want all of them to be state-owned, even if a street vendor sets up a stall to sell breakfast, night snacks, etc., you want to state-owned.
If you set up a stall selling some tea to quench the thirst of passers-by and cool off the heat, you want it to be state-owned. If old ladies or housewives set up a stall to do some needlework and mending, you also want it to be state-owned.
Even if it is state-owned, it is still labeled as exploitation and oppression... Many of them set up their own stalls, and they oppress themselves by themselves or their family members come to help them, right? "
Su Yonglin shook his head and sighed repeatedly.
"I have learned that these small vendors basically have enough labor force in their families to work in agriculture, so they set up a stall to do some small business to supplement their family income. They want to live a good life. But suddenly they are not allowed to do this. What will they think in their hearts? ?
Even if these are not considered, private commerce must be eliminated. Then can we meet all the actual needs of the people? Just like these stalls selling early snacks or large bowls of tea.
Now they are blooming everywhere and can meet the needs of the people. After they are state-run, will we be able to have enough manpower to replace them? What should we do if we cannot meet the needs of the people? "
Officials from the Ministry of Finance looked at me and I looked at you, but no one answered Su Yonglin's question.
Really don't know how to answer.
Previously, with the expansion of the state-owned economy and the improvement of the economic situation, they were enthusiastic and very satisfied with the status quo. They felt that the day when the state-owned economy was fully completed was the day when the ideal social achievement would be achieved. For this reason, they decided to promote this at all costs.
But now it seems that the situation is not that simple.
Their original intention is correct, but when it comes to actual implementation, it is difficult to promote it.
People's actual needs are here, limited to productivity issues, but state-owned enterprises may not be able to meet everyone's actual and exact needs, which will inevitably cause quite a lot of problems at the practical level.
How to deal with it?
Ignore it?
Basking in false victory?
That would be contradictory.
The officials bowed their heads and said nothing, but Lin Jingchun still had some minor complaints.
Lin Jingchun has an open attitude on the issue of unlimited state-owned enterprises. He neither insists nor objects. He has always focused on the fact that the country has enough money to spend. He is really unable to do anything else.
So while watching the debate between Su Yonglin and his subordinates, he remained silent.
It was only at this final stage that he felt that something had to be said.
"Chairman, we don't have to state everything. Didn't we spend too much and make too little money before? Every department asked me for money, and when I asked for it, I couldn't bear to hear the figures. I still had to give money. , the national treasury is completely empty, and all the rats in it are about to move. I don’t think of ways to make money, is that okay?”
Lin Jingchun stared at Su Yonglin and complained: "Why don't I want to be a real minister of the Ministry of Finance, do some national policy things, and save the time of running around? Isn't this also forcing me to be a businessman to make money? ?”
Well, this problem is also a practical problem.
When it comes to this issue, the heads of every department in the court feel guilty and have no confidence in facing Lin Jingchun, including Su Yonglin.
When it was time to spend money, everyone wished that the copper coins managed by Lin Jingchun had the ability to have children. Big money could give birth to small money, and small money could continue to grow up and give birth to small money.
Now that the crisis has passed and the finances have become increasingly abundant, this kind of problem has arisen again. It is indeed a bit embarrassing to say this.
However, what needs to be said is that this is a major national issue and is related to people's livelihood issues in the future. It cannot be ignored because of some small personal issues.
Su Yonglin could only shamelessly point fingers at Lin Jingchun, asking him to understand.
“On behalf of the country, the Ministry of Finance can guide and restrict private business, and work with the judicial department to set relevant laws and regulations. Except for necessary industries that must be controlled, there is no need to intervene to compete with the people for profits.
Times were difficult in the past, and we had to do it as a last resort. Now that things are getting better, it’s time to make some adjustments to some of the last resort practices in the past. "
Obviously, Su Yonglin pays attention to internal democracy, but his influence is still extremely powerful. Under his influence, Lin Jingchun made adjustments to some policy lines of the Ministry of Finance.
After that, the Ministry of Finance actually canceled more than a dozen state-owned plans that were planned to be promoted, and set a prospect plan for several large-scale state-owned industrial departments to gradually promote privatization in the future.
It’s a good idea to prepare in advance to avoid being in a hurry later.
This policy adjustment also put the brakes on the vague "unlimited state-owned" trend of thought within the Ministry of Finance, stopping the excessive spread of this tendency, which can be regarded as a precautionary measure in a sense.
In the ideal society of the future, there is no need for a state. The world is one and mankind is united. Where is the need for state-owned enterprises?
It's just that in this era, if they want to reach that end point, this is the path they must go through. This is a means, a method, not an end, let alone the final result required.
Gu Mi
In the final analysis, it is still a question of production.
If production cannot keep up with ideals, many problems will always arise. This is something Su Yonglin cannot ignore in any case.
Although the goal was achieved, Su Yonglin walked around Lin Jingchun for a while, not meeting him in private unless necessary, so as not to be panicked by his resentful eyes.
It was not until the end of the second Ming-Song War that Su Yonglin finally had the confidence to meet Lin Jingchun to discuss matters with him.
Lin Jingchun was also elated because of the large wave of high-quality economic resources, and his attitude towards Su Yonglin also improved a lot, and he looked a little more intimate like before.
Then he went south in person and took many people with him to Guangzhou and Quanzhou.
But the matter didn't end there.
When Su Yonglin convened a state council meeting to put forward suggestions for the Ministry of Finance's unlimited state-owned economy, not all Ministry of Finance officials agreed with Su Yonglin's idea.
Su Yonglin's long-term attitude of encouraging democratic centralism caused his side as a traditional emperor to gradually fade away within the Fuxing Association.
In the four years since Hongwu's reign, officials with Fuxing membership gradually began to care less about his status as emperor, and dared to put forward many different ideas at meetings, and even dared to debate with him and stick to their own opinions.
Su Yonglin is also very willing to have ideological discussions or debates with members.
At the meeting at that time, officials from the Ministry of Finance stood up to oppose Su Yonglin's idea.
He said that the "Hongwu Political Treatise" and many articles written by Su Yonglin himself had elaborated on the ideal society he wanted to build.
It was a society full of peace, friendship, justice, equality and abundant material life. Everyone yearned for it, and everything the Ministry of Finance did was to realize such a society as soon as possible.
Since ancient times, there can be no treachery without business, and no business without treachery. Businessmen operate for profit. To make money, this will inevitably harm the interests of the people. Therefore, only by eliminating private business, nationalizing everything, and eliminating profiteers through the state-run economy can we What's wrong with safeguarding the interests of the people?
Su Yonglin's statement at the time was also very firm.
"This is not wrong, but comrade, social development has its own natural laws. Natural laws cannot be reversed by our will. I often say that we must give full play to our subjective initiative to transform the entire world and build our ideal society successfully, but people are not god.
There are some things we can't do. We have to admit that we can't stand here and let the day turn into night immediately. I can't point here at my cup of cold tea and let it turn hot at once with my will. We have to Heat it and it gets hot, right? "
Su Yonglin pointed to the sky outside, and then pointed to the tea cup in front of him.
As a result, the Ministry of Finance official came over and filled Su Yonglin's teacup with hot water.
"You also said that just because no one has done it, it doesn't mean it can't be done. That has always been the case, right?"
"………………"
Su Yonglin was very depressed when he was asked.
"Even if it is state-owned, it cannot be completely unprofitable, and state-owned does not mean that it is doing good things, because there are always some things that will not change due to our will, even if we master the entire process from producing raw materials to selling.
We can keep the price unchanged, but the cost cannot remain unchanged. Heavy rain will increase transportation costs, and operational errors will increase production costs. Any problem in any process will lead to an increase in costs.
It is difficult to control this process manually without making mistakes. Who can make mistakes without being a sage? Besides, weather problems are beyond human control. In this case, if you insist on your opinion, you will suffer losses. "
Officials still stick to their guns.
"As long as the price remains unchanged and the state bears the losses, it will not harm the interests of the people, right? As long as we insist that the court pays subsidies, we can allow state-owned shops and factories to persist and continue to protect the interests of the people."
"But doesn't the country's money also come from the people? The people pay taxes, so the country has money. The wool comes from the sheep. It is said that the country is responsible, but in fact it is the people who pay taxes.
The imperial court itself is not a profitable shop, and it itself does not make money. Therefore, if we run various businesses well, aren't we also responsible for the people who pay taxes? "
Su Yonglin spread his hands and said slowly.
At this time, the official lowered his head and looked a little gloomy.
Obviously, it's not that he didn't think of this, he just couldn't think of a logical and self-consistent method.
After a while, he raised his head and asked: "Then it's enough to make money from overseas sea trade. Jiangnan earns so much money through sea trade. As long as we master it all, we can get enough money to make up for this part of the loss. "
"Who knows how much this loss will be? Who knows whether sea trade can continue forever? Who knows how long this money can be earned? Once the countries we do business with have civil strife and war, will they continue to do business with us? ?
Once this business cannot continue and we cannot make money through sea trade, who will bear the huge losses? How long will it take? How long can our finances last? What should I do if there are other places where money needs to be spent at this time? "
Looking at the speechless official, Su Yonglin shook his head and said: "Your intentions are good, I firmly believe that, but there are too many uncontrollable things in this world, and at the same time, we have thousands of people on our shoulders. Thousands of people’s lives, we can’t do anything when our heads are hot, it’s too dangerous.”
The official said nothing more afterward.
Su Yonglin didn't know if he agreed with his thoughts in his heart.
But he suddenly realized that since there were so many people with the same idea in the Ministry of Finance, there would probably be no shortage of them nationwide.
